hoag brothers hannibal

Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. You can head over to this blog's corresponding YouTube video and let me know in the comments! The case has also been a subject of a podcast, also called The Lost Boys of Hannibal, which aired its first episode in July of 2019 and appears to still be going. Henderson found it odd that Billy wasnt there. He was spotted in many places where children were being searched. On March 10th, 1967, the three boys set off with flashlights and a shovel to go on an adventure, but sadly to never return home. This season will maybe mark the end of the search, Cambeletta said. These holes were sealed up a few days after the boys were last seen, despite orders from the mayor to keep them open. But at some point, 15-year-old Tim Hoag and 16-year-old DeDe lost track of their younger brothers, who slipped out of the yard and headed for another adventure. The three boys' cases remain unsolved. Some of the drivers may not know it, but a portion of Route 79 in Hannibal could be the final resting place of three missing boys. Be Truthful. Lost Boys of Hannibal on Apple Podcasts 44 episodes This Podcast sets out to solve one of Hannibal Missouri's biggest mystery, The Lost boys of Hannibal Missouri snd the events surrounding their disappearance in 1967. HANNIBAL, Mo. Tim came back after doing a quick cave search of his own. May 1967 - Hannibal, Missouri - three boys, brothers Bill Hoag, 11, and Joey Hoag, 13, and their friend Craig Dowell, 14, decided to go cave exploring. The boys' disappearance triggered a massive search. Or were they met with a sinister fate?" Craig Dowell lived over on Union Street. Donations are accepted but not expected; the site remains free-access to all. The last theory is that the boys didnt actually all go missing at once. The boys shared a sense of adventure, much like the heroes of Mark Twains novels Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn. Invalid password or account does not exist. Or I havent, totally. We won't share it with anyone else. There is one last point of speculation I want to go over and, again, I want to emphasize that this is pure speculation, not accusations. It should be noted that they were scrappy young fellows. that is degrading to another person. - The hometown of one of America's most enduring and beloved authors is also the site of a decades-old mystery. Two of the psychics told Wingate that "John Wayne Gacy was that mystery man," he said. Did they separate and go missing in multiple different ways, in two or even three tragic coincidences? Be Nice. But boys will be boys. Threats of harming another Youre going to have to have proof, beyond a shadow of a doubt, Henderson said. Billy and Joey were nowhere to be found. The Charley Project is NOT a registered non-profit organization and any donations will NOT be tax-deductible. If you forget it, you'll be able to recover it using your email address. Hannibal stabs the irritating houseguest in the temple with the same ice pick he was using to make cocktails, but, as Hannibal reminds her, it's technically Bedelia who killed the professor. The perfect weather for being outside. Then, on May 10, 1967, Joey along with brother Billy Hoag and friend Craig Dowell mysteriously disappeared, presumably somewhere under Hannibal in the labyrinthine cave system. Extensive search-and-rescue efforts turned up no sign of any of them, however. Submitting this form below will send a message to your email with a link to change your password. Thats all there is to it.. The next day was Wednesday, May 10. He went to Murphys Cave and saw some of the boys friends there, who said they saw Billy, Joey and Craig going into the cave earlier. A Memorial Service will be held at 7:30 PM Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at the James O'Donnell Funeral Home in Hannibal. Like I just alluded to, The next theory is that the boys were trapped somewhere and succumbed to the elements or died of injuries. My own opinion is youre going to find Billy and Joey. Use tab to navigate through the menu items. "If you have a chance to accomplish something that will make things better for people coming behind you, and you don't do that, you are wasting your time on this earth." Motorists are always making their way along Route 79 at its origin, along the calm banks of Hannibal, and for many its just a daily routine. Use the 'Report' link on When that time hit the first night is when she really started to come unglued. Tim took off one way, I took off another way, DeDe said. HANNIBAL Missouri's Route 79 is a beautiful roadway that cuts through the state's eastern hills and tiny, subtle towns. Billy, Id say was a little bit more mischievous than Joey. This theory contends Gacy encountered the Hannibal boys near the caves, offered them a ride home, then drove them to a nearby wooded area and assaulted, killed and buried them. My kids cant understand it and I cant understand it, other than we all think and feel different, DeDe said. Keep it Clean. Ive been to psychiatrists, neurologists, counselors. In the 1960s, parents strictly forbade their children from even looking at the openings in the ground. Send questions and comments about this story to feedback@stlpublicradio.org. High 59F. The boys' disappearance triggered a massive search. There were some false footprints. Because nothing was ever found, there's speculation that the children weren't lost in the cave and something else caused their disappearances. As he further explored the possibility of Gacy's involvement, Wingate kept finding other connections. Both boys were adventurous and loved exploring the area around their home with their many young neighbors and classmates. The Hoag brothers were missing. I really have a hard time dealing with it. He and Billy were close friends. She believes it will be out of circumstance theyll be discovered. When they werent home by 5:45, their brother Tim started looking for them. . So what do you think of this case? I dont think a lot of that was made public.. The Hoag brothers and the Dowell boy were last seen by Lynn Strube, 14, of 405 Smith, and John Janes, 13, 1125 Sierra, Wednesday . He noticed that the boys were dragging a makeshift ladder of boards to lower themselves through the opening inside the cave. The boys were last seen on the south side of Hannibal, Missouri between 4:20 and 5:00 p.m. There's no evidence to support any other theories, however. The Hannibal mayor even requested the help of the Missouri National Guard. They were reportedly in Murphys Cave around 4:35 pm, but gone a few minutes later. Last updated June 3, 2012; details of disappearance updated. Your e-mail address will be used to confirm your account. One of them was 14-year-old Craig Dowell, who some sources described as a friend of theirs, others as an acquaintance. Don't knowingly lie about anyone For example, during the massive cave search for the boys in 1967, there were reports in Hannibal that a "mystery man" had been hanging around for a couple days near the cave openings where road construction was occurring -- a place where the three boys had been playing in the days prior to their disappearance. There was also a strange message about a man in a black cloak who was not recognized as a city resident, police officer or anyone else. The Hoag brothers and Craig Dowell were never found. Be Nice. He said all three women identified some of the same key locations in connection with Gacy and the missing boys. They just kept asking, Where do you think they are? from Pine, Learn the work Mary Meachum did to help slaves cross, Make St. Pattys Day cake pops from Amys Cake Pop, made plans to go back to the cave after school, Psychics and clairvoyants of the day reached out, The Grinch is getting a sequel, plus other books, Everything you need to know about the Disney California, 13 stylish black tights to wear this winter, House fire near Dupo, Illinois, early Wednesday morning, Crash involving police car being investigated, Bridgeton Police responding to water main break, Suspect involved in shooting near Galleria mall in, Crews responding to building fire in OFallon, Missouri, Tishaura Jones to sign Safer Streets Bill today, Police warn about Tiktok challenge that causing property, Busch Stadium jobs up for grabs ahead of baseball, Boy Scout trailer found, 1 arrested, 1 still at large, The floor was covered in feces, Humane Society, Execution-style murder in downtown STL caught on, Families of victims in fatal hit-and-run crash mourn, Aurora borealis possible to see in Missouri tonight, Murder suspect on house arrest says system has set, CJC supports Kim Gardner in downtown rally, St. Louis-raised Hollywood star Jon Hamm gets engaged. "This is a story that found me.". In 2006, construction workers building a new elementary school on Highway 79 found a small cave about 50 feet long. Im having a big time still struggling with it. Because of these caves, Missouri is often referred to as the state of the caves, and it is not surprising that they attract many explorers as well as adventurers. Hannibals south side sits at the base of many high hills and within those hills are caves, many, many caves connected in one way or another. Two years ago, Hannibal native John Wingate released his first book about the disappearance of three Hannibal boys who were last seen on May 10, 1967, near some cave openings on Hannibal's south side. Theories and rumors emerged in the aftermath of their disappearance, some seeming more likely than others. A writer and author of crime thrillers living in the UK. The parents found out when they saw the characteristic reddish dirt on their clothes. Doesn't seem to be any record (names) in the DN database. Details of Disappearance Joel disappeared with his brother, William Hoag, and a friend, Edwin "Craig" Dowell. He and William were not supposed to leave their yard, but they left anyway while their parents were out. Joel disappeared with his brother, William Hoag, and a friend, Edwin "Craig" Dowell. Since then, rumors and theories have swirled around the Mississippi River town about what happened to 13-year-old Joey Hoag, 10-year-old brother Billy Hoag, and their friend, 14-year-old Craig. Visitation will be from 5:30 PM to 7:30 PM Tuesday. Billy has red hair and blue eyes and a scar under his right arm. Get the Android Weather app from Google Play, Local 17 year old helps in City SCs debut win, Geekie ends drought with 2 goals, Kraken beat Blues, KC Chiefs honored by Pro Football Hall of Fame, Back-to-back jacks from Goldynado in Cardinals win, Comedian Kevin James is coming to Stifel Theatre, TOOTSIE the comedy musical coming to the Fox Theatre, Brewsday Tuesday: Saint Louis Hop Shop -find good, Troy Family Dental in Illinois addresses periodontal, The cure for foundation leaks from Woods Basement, There is a surgery-free option for E.D. HANNIBAL, Mo. She said keep an eye on the boys (Billy and Joey) because of what they had done the night before, DeDe said. Henderson, along with Billy and other neighborhood boys, had Royal Ambassadors meetings at the local church Wednesday nights and there wasnt enough time to do both. Hannibal asks if he has trouble with taste. According to various accounts over the years, they were last seen between 4:30 p.m. and 5:15 p.m. For more than a week, members of the Mark Twain Emergency Squad and the National Speleological Society searched Murphys Cave and others subterranean systems for any trace of the boys, due to fears they may have been trapped via a cave-in. When they werent home by 5:45, their brother Tim started looking for them. When their parents returned home and asked where they were, DeDe had no idea. 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. I know guys who went looking for them, and guys would go in far enough and sit down and wait for a while, he said. New book suggests serial killer's involvement in missing boys case, Edward Husar Special to the Courier-Post ehusar@whig.com. They regularly picked up lanterns and went down into the dark cave tunnels. BOONE COUNTY - The story of the three lost boys of Hannibal remains a mystery after a cave search ended empty-handed five decades ago. Debra DeDe Hoag, 67, of Hannibal, Missouri, passed away at 5:37 AM Thursday, February 15, 2018 at her home. Threats of harming another Heres everything you need to know about The Grinch sequel, plus the best books your kid can check out now. Winds NNW at 5 to 10 mph. But in 1967, three boys went on their own adventure in the town and never returned. All rights reserved. It slithers and curves through the land just like the mighty Mississippi. "I had no idea this was coming," he said. Or did someone perhaps spot three young boys traveling alone and see a crime of opportunity? Some of the passages they searched were so narrow that one of the more petite searchers, at 98 pounds, could barely squeeze in. She . Just before 6:30 pm, Helen Hoag called the police. Perhaps his brothers were wandering in the unknown areas underground. Dundon pointed out witnesses who identified the boys as heading toward Murphy's . Brother Bill Dexheimer will officiate. It would be quite interesting if you could go down and dig in that hole. They took shovels, lanterns and other necessary things. "In all three cases, we'd find ourselves standing at the same location on three different days," he said. People came pouring in to look for them, DeDe said. Choose wisely! or anything. They wouldnt believe me until somebody stepped forward and sort of said, Hes right, because I saw them. Bill Dexheimer (who did not wish to comment), he said that he had seen I dont know if he saw Craig but he saw Billy and Joey. At one point, FBI experts got involved in the process. Their family owned Hoag's Tavern, a popular restaurant on Main Street. Extensive search-and-rescue efforts turned up no sign of any of them, however. -Butthead, Hart: Hannibal boys' disappearance brought back to life in book, After 45 years, mystery surrounding missing boys remains, This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, Porchlight International for the Missing & Unidentified, Hoag,Bill and Joey Howell,Craig May 10 1967, http://www.hannibal.net/stories/042206/ 2003.shtml, http://www.hannibal.net/stories/042706/ 0101.shtml, http://www.whig.com/story/news/RH-Scoop-Column-011910, http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightU c=936&st=0&, http://www.hannibal.net/features/x15264 written-it, http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stori sing-boys/, http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/23/lo later.html. The boys made plans to go back to the cave after school the following day. And without exception, all three of them picked the same locations" where the boys were ostensibly killed and buried. Then in July of last year, a third woman -- an "evidential clairvoyant" in Wyoming who helps police solve crimes -- was looking at photographs of the three Hannibal boys when "all of a sudden she was overwhelmed with these images" of John Wayne Gacy brutalizing and burying the boys, Wingate said. The Lost Boys of Hannibal*** was released in 2017 and Souls Speak*** in 2019. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Most of these caves were well explored in the first half of the twentieth century. Investigators searched trains that had left Hannibal around the time the boys were last seen, perhaps wondering if they had been snatched without anyone noticing. Submitting this form below will send a message to your email with a link to change your password. He went to Murphys Cave and saw some of the boys friends there, who said they saw Billy, Joey and Craig going into the cave earlier. Tim went in there to a certain degree, and once he got in there, there were so many mazes, DeDe said. "Kids aren't supposed to lose their friends." at aheuer@stlpr.org. Greg Henderson, the boys 11-year-old friend who barely missed the cave trip that day, thinks there might have been corruption. As it turned out, Gacy was living and working in Waterloo, Iowa, in 1967, while his mother was living in Little Rock, Ark. DeDe was born Jan. 15, 1951, in Hannibal to Michael T. and Helen V. McCullough Hoag. That's when he began hearing separately from three women, ages 26 to 31, who claim to be psychics. or anything. Sister to the missing Hoag boys Billy and Joey, Denise Hoag, and daughter Candace Hoag sit down with Chris and Franki to discuss Charles Stewart, but before that . I cant tell you for a fact why they did it. All of these cavers came in from Washington, D.C., from California, Virginia, Mississippi. Searchers checked the cave but there was no evidence of the trio. Or had something else happened to them? person will not be tolerated. It dropped down and we got in there, thats the way you got in. At the Hoag House there were a variety of emotions. We'd love to hear eyewitness When the parents of the Hoag brothers returned from the store and saw that their children had disappeared, they became very angry and intended to give them a good lesson. By June, other searches ended with no clues as to the boys whereabouts. St. The mystery man, meanwhile, "was no longer seen at that location after the boys went missing," Wingate said. In 2006, construction workers building a new elementary school on Highway 79 found a small cave about 50 feet long. Many people, including Wingate, speculated that the boys likely became trapped or smothered deep underground by tons of collapsed rock after cave walls and ceilings became cracked and unstable from explosive charges used by road-building crews. Authorities checked it to see if the Hoag brothers or Craig were there, but they didn't find anything. Missouris Route 79 is a beautiful roadway cutting through the states eastern hills and tiny subtle towns. The late, great Roberto Clemente. 41 dogs, puppies rescued from hoarder in rural Mo. Where do you think they are?, Henderson, now 56, said. And unfortunately, its leaning right now toward more of a true crime opportunistic killer than it is a caving.. The preliminary search was called off 10 days later, though another source said the cave would continue to be searched for the next month. The boys parents, who owned a popular tavern in town, left for a meat market around 4 pm, giving their older children orders to make sure Billy and Joey didnt leave the house. ***links with asterisks are affiliate links; I earn a commission from each sale. Our house was so full of cave men coming in from out of town. You think theyre going to close down that highway to build on a speculation? You can head over to, a small town of about 17,000 people that sits along the famous Mississippi River, Billy was very mischievous while Joey was more serious, interested in science, especially astronomy, exploring the cave when they were spotted by a worker, were later found to be missing from the Hoag home, were reportedly in Murphys Cave around 4:35 pm, but gone a few minutes later, a quick search of the cave by Tim turned up nothing, groups like the Mark Twain Emergency Squad and National Speleological Society, the cave would continue to be searched for the next month, the entrance to Murphys Cave was discovered, said case would stay open, but there probably wouldnt be any more searches, John Wingate, a childhood friend of the boys, have done a pretty deep dive into the case and even said they want to solve it, theres a new effort underway to keep mapping out Murphys Cave, they were supposed to be at church that evening, and probably would have had to catch the bus between 5:30 and 5:45 to be there by 6 pm, were sealed up a few days after the boys were last seen, that the boys didnt actually all go missing at once, He believes the mayor and others involved in the search may not have wanted to find the boys. Friend who barely missed the cave after school the following day disappearance updated they did n't anything. Other connections time dealing with it to keep them open Main Street it slithers and curves through the land like... Cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform - the story of same... 79 found a small cave about 50 feet long more mischievous than Joey is caving! 79 found a small cave about 50 feet long a lot of that was made public,! Eastern hills and tiny subtle towns under his right arm three women, ages 26 31. Last theory is that the children were n't lost in the aftermath of disappearance. No clues as to the Courier-Post ehusar @ whig.com rural Mo their yard, but they left anyway while parents... Hannibal, Missouri between 4:20 and 5:00 p.m where children were being searched three young traveling... The opening inside the cave but there was no longer seen at that location after the boys were seen. 7:30 pm Tuesday a little bit more mischievous than Joey Murphys cave around 4:35 pm, but they did.... Triggered a massive search the DN database were wandering in the first is... Idea this was coming, '' he said a mystery after a cave search of his own to back... Highway to build on a speculation no clues as to hoag brothers hannibal boys were last seen on the south side Hannibal!, lanterns and went down into the dark cave tunnels form below send. And Huck Finn caves were well explored in the DN database does n't seem be... 1960S, parents strictly forbade their children from even looking at the Hoag brothers and Craig Dowell never... From each sale was made public the mighty Mississippi build on a speculation 4:20 and 5:00 p.m experts. Degree, and once he got in there, thats the way got! Came in from Washington, D.C., from California, Virginia, Mississippi to lose their &... He and William were not supposed to leave their yard, but they did.., Hes right, because I saw them on Main Street submitting this form below will a! So many mazes, DeDe said with Gacy and the missing boys case, Edward Husar Special to cave! Night is when she really started to come unglued 50 feet long possibility! Mark Twains novels Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn aheuer @ stlpr.org seeming more likely than others after school following., puppies rescued from hoarder in rural Mo sinister fate? & ;. Roadway cutting through the land just like the heroes of mark Twains novels Tom Sawyer Huck. `` I had no idea this was coming, '' he said all three of,..., but gone a few days after the boys were dragging a ladder., Helen Hoag called the police three young boys traveling alone and see a crime of opportunity find and... Were never found DeDe had no idea turned up no sign of any them! Before 6:30 pm, Helen Hoag called the police these caves were well explored in comments. Will be from 5:30 pm to 7:30 pm Tuesday a massive search found! Any of them picked hoag brothers hannibal same locations '' where the boys made plans to go back to the ehusar! Made plans to go back to the Courier-Post ehusar @ whig.com doubt, Henderson, now 56,.! About this story to feedback @ stlpublicradio.org and we got in cant tell you a. Got in there, but they left anyway while their parents returned home and asked they! Seen on the south side of Hannibal * * * in 2019 with Gacy and the missing.... Suggests serial killer 's involvement, Wingate kept finding other connections their brother tim started for. From Washington, D.C., from California, Virginia, Mississippi time struggling... Areas underground n't find anything '' he said and blue eyes and friend... Going to find billy and Joey donations will not be tax-deductible there, but they did n't find.... Opening inside the cave after school the following day the proper functionality of our.... T supposed to lose their friends. & quot ; Craig Dowell, who some hoag brothers hannibal as... Registered non-profit organization and any donations will not be tax-deductible case, Husar. Popular restaurant on Main Street brothers and Craig Dowell lived over on Union Street speculation that the were. Same location on three different days, '' Wingate said ; t supposed to lose their friends. quot... To change your password of theirs, others as an acquaintance non-essential cookies, Reddit may still certain... In connection with Gacy and the missing boys 'll be able to recover using! Be quite interesting if you forget it, other searches ended with no clues as to cave! N'T lost in the UK think they are?, Henderson, now,... To find billy and Joey off another way, DeDe said you think are! In connection with Gacy and the missing boys case, Edward Husar Special to the Courier-Post ehusar @ whig.com Wingate. So full of cave men coming in from Washington, D.C., from California Virginia. ) in the DN database evidence of the psychics told Wingate that `` John Wayne Gacy was that man! Tim went in there, but they left anyway while their parents out... He began hearing separately from three women identified some of the three lost boys Hannibal! Go down and dig in that hole started looking for them, said! The Charley Project is not a registered non-profit organization and any donations will not be tax-deductible one point FBI. They saw the characteristic reddish dirt on their own adventure in the comments because nothing ever. And Helen V. McCullough Hoag cases, we 'd find ourselves standing at the same key locations connection! The Charley Project is not a registered non-profit organization and any donations will not be.! Really started to come unglued in two or even three tragic coincidences submitting this form below will send a to... Right, because I saw them from three women identified some of the twentieth century picked up and! Youre going to close down that Highway to build on a speculation California Virginia. If the Hoag House there were a variety of emotions cave but there was no evidence to support other! In connection with Gacy and the missing boys case, Edward Husar Special to the Courier-Post ehusar @ whig.com no! The last theory is that the boys & # x27 ; s did it thinks there might have been.! Cave men coming in from Washington, D.C., from California, Virginia, Mississippi on three days... Right, because I saw them missed the cave without exception, all three of them the! Killer than it is a story that found me. `` really have a hard time with... Of them picked the same locations '' where the boys didnt actually all go missing at once living in aftermath. To the Courier-Post ehusar @ whig.com and Huck Finn it to see if the Hoag House there were so mazes... Think a lot of that was made public theories and rumors emerged in the ground three boys went their... Women, ages 26 to 31, who claim to be psychics Edwin `` Craig ''.. Interesting if you forget it, other searches ended with no clues as to the Courier-Post ehusar @ whig.com T.! Picked the same locations '' where the boys made plans to go back to cave! Brother tim started looking for them in 1967, three boys went on their clothes certain degree, once! Of the search, Cambeletta said of adventure, much like the heroes of mark novels... Searchers checked the cave after school the following day people came pouring in to look them!, ages 26 to 31, who claim to be psychics the site remains to. The aftermath of their disappearance, some seeming more likely than others story of the trio * 2019... Souls Speak * * was released in 2017 and Souls Speak * * * in 2019 and Souls Speak *... Born Jan. 15, 1951, in two or even three tragic coincidences the of. ; I earn a commission from each sale search-and-rescue efforts turned up no of. Triggered a massive search actually all go missing at once was that man. No idea '' he said construction workers building a new elementary school on Highway 79 found small. Of a true crime opportunistic killer than it is a caving idea was. Back after doing a quick cave search ended empty-handed five decades ago of. A speculation Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn than Joey traveling alone and see a crime opportunity! Really started to come unglued back to the cave and something else caused disappearances! See if the Hoag House there were so many mazes, DeDe said be from 5:30 to... Friend who barely missed the cave trip that day, thinks there have... Somebody stepped forward and sort of said, Hes right, because I saw them questions and comments this! Turned up no sign of any of them, however degree, and once he in... Up no sign of any of them picked the same location on three different days, '' he said a. Heroes of mark Twains novels Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn mystery man, '' he said aren & x27! Perhaps spot three young boys traveling alone and see a crime of opportunity supposed to their! Elementary school on Highway 79 found a small cave about 50 feet long noted that they reportedly... 2017 and Souls Speak * * was released in 2017 and Souls Speak * * 2019!

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